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Episode 141: Two Women's Crisis Services

Jenna Mayne is the communications and fund development manager at Women’s Crisis Services of Waterloo Region. In the second episode of a special two-part series about WCSWR, Mayne talks about raising awareness and funds, public education, prevention, and hosting the She Is Your Neighbour podcast, where she and her guests explore the realities and complexities of domestic violence.

Episode 141: Two Women's Crisis Services

Sara: I'm Sara Geidlinger.

Marshall: And I'm Marshall Ward.

Jenna: And I'm Jenna Mayne.

Jenna: I'm the Communications and Fund Development manager at Women's Crisis Services of Waterloo Region and I'm here today to talk about our podcast, She is Your Neighbour.

Jenna: This podcast explores the realities and complexities of domestic violence.

Jenna: It has an intersectional approach, and we really think about the fact that she is your neighbor and we all have a role to play in ending domestic violence.

Sara: Jenna, thank you so much for joining us today.

Jenna: Oh, yeah.

Jenna: Thank you for having me.

Jenna: It's great to be here.

Sara: We are very excited to talk to you and to dig into all the work that you do at the Women's Crisis Services of Waterloo Region and with the She is Your Neighbor podcast.

Sara: Last week, we talked to Jen Hutton all about her role and learned a lot from her.

Sara: And now we want to pick your brain all about the work that you do as the Communications and Fund Development Manager.

Jenna: Yeah, I'm really lucky.

Jenna: I love my job, as you said, the communications and fund development manager.

Jenna: So there's kind of a lot of things that go with that.

Jenna: There's communications, public education.

Jenna: We do a lot of work on prevention through the podcast, so it's kind of a different way to work on prevention, but it's pretty fun.

Jenna: It's really up my alley.

Jenna: Yeah.

Jenna: And I always say I have the fun role at the organization, so I feel pretty lucky to do that.

Jenna: So my background is actually in journalism and communications, so when I came into this role, the fundraising part was actually a bit new to me, but I realized there's kind of a lot of similarities and crossovers there, and we've really leaned on communications a lot in our fundraising.

Jenna: I think it's really the perfect fit for me.

Jenna: I really couldn't think of a better job for me.

Marshall: And the interviewing must have come very naturally for that.

Marshall: She Is Your Neighbor podcast.

Marshall: You must have thought, oh, I can do this.

Marshall: This works in this medium, too.

Sara: Yeah, exactly.

Jenna: It was pretty fun.

Jenna: It wasn't something we had kind of done before at the organization.

Jenna: It was kind of something new that we had started.

Jenna: But Jen, my boss, she's always open to new ideas and ready to try anything.

Jenna: So when we talked about doing the podcast, she was right on board with it.

Jenna: And yeah, it kind of worked out well because I have a bit of a background in radio and journalism, so it was a really good fit.

Jenna: And it was cool and surprising that I got to actually use it in this role because I didn't see that going into it, but it's been probably my favorite part of the job.

Jenna: So it's really cool.

Marshall: And I would think that the podcast is the medium itself works really well for the content and what you're trying to get from these interviews.

Marshall: It's not film, right.

Marshall: It's not live, right.

Marshall: I think that's probably you can put people at ease as much as you can with the way you're doing it.

Jenna: Yeah, I agree.

Jenna: And I think for these difficult stories, too, I think it is a really good form.

Jenna: Video could maybe be a little intimidating when you're talking about these kind of deep, dark parts of your life.

Jenna: It can be a bit emotional.

Jenna: So I think doing it as a podcast and an audio version rather than video is comforting for some people.

Sara: Even the title of your podcast, she Is Your Neighbor, is where the education I feel begins.

Sara: This show has deep conversations with an underlying importance of if we don't talk about it with each other, it didn't happen, and the world just starts to agree with that.

Sara: It's incredibly important to be a good neighbor and understand within your community that these conversations have to happen.

Sara: And as we learned, even looking at the website, more people tell their friends and family than they will report to the police.

Sara: Right.

Sara: So through this podcast, you're opening up these stories to say, like, if this can happen to these people that you know in your community, it's probably happening more often than you think or perhaps you might identify with the store yourself.

Jenna: Yeah, exactly.

Jenna: And I think you kind of hit the nail on the head there.

Jenna: The name was really important to us.

Jenna: She is your neighbor.

Jenna: That really kind of is what it's all about is domestic violence is happening really in so many neighborhoods across Waterloo region and across Canada.

Jenna: And I think she is your neighbor.

Jenna: Domestic violence happens to so many more people than we think.

Jenna: So there's a lot of misconceptions about domestic violence and who it happens to.

Jenna: I think because we aren't talking about it enough.

Jenna: People don't understand it enough, the different types and the severity of it.

Jenna: I think a lot of the time we think of physical violence when we're talking about domestic abuse and that's really just one type that is not the only type of domestic violence.

Jenna: Usually it's layered, it's very complex.

Jenna: But I think because of that, people don't always see it as happening in their own neighborhood.

Jenna: And unfortunately, the reality is that it is.

Jenna: So I think the more we talk about it, the better and we can provide support to those who need it and kind of remove some of that shame and stigma that's been long associated with domestic violence.

Jenna: I think it's about time we start to kind of lift that and be able to have these conversations.

Marshall: And I think of it as your guests are presenting.

Marshall: I don't know if this is the right word, but a gift to everybody, to all the listeners.

Marshall: There's a vulnerability to telling these stories and sharing these stories.

Marshall: As you said, when it comes to shame and stigma, and I have so much appreciation for every one of them who share that story, you must feel it while you're doing it there in person and all the energy that you're feeling during that conversation.

Jenna: Oh, yeah, I feel the same.

Jenna: It's really emotional hearing these stories.

Jenna: And I think that was one thing that was difficult during COVID was we had to flip to doing the podcast virtually.

Jenna: And I think when you're telling stories like this, there's something about actually kind of being there in person and just feeling the room and being there together.

Jenna: And it's a bit different.

Jenna: So still really grateful for everyone who did it virtually.

Jenna: And I think luckily we all got so used to Zoom this year that people actually were able to tell their stories quite fine that way still.

Jenna: But yeah, I'm definitely really grateful every time someone shares a story like that because it is so personal and I can't imagine I haven't shared a story like that in a podcast form, so I can only imagine how difficult it would be.

Jenna: So I do really appreciate it, but I do think it's necessary.

Jenna: And all the people who have participated in the podcast, they always seem really happy afterwards, which is a relief.

Jenna: I don't want anyone to feel burdened by it, but it's nice, I think, for them to be able to share their story sometimes and knowing that then they're empowering somebody else by doing that.

Jenna: So I think it's kind of a good feeling, but it definitely is an emotional thing.

Sara: One thing that I really noticed about she as your neighbor is something that Marshall and I talk about a lot on our podcast is something Marshall taught me was leaving room, giving space to your guests to let that story out.

Sara: And not a lot of shows are constructed that way.

Sara: But just by the nature of the weight and the gravity of some of the stories that are being told on your show, you have to leave that room.

Sara: And I see you sitting back in my mind because it's podcast, I visualize you sitting back and letting them have that space to talk.

Jenna: Yeah, exactly.

Jenna: I think there's a lot of that in the podcast because this really is their story.

Jenna: And I think I do need to kind of give them the time and the space to share it the way that makes sense to them and kind of working through it because for a lot of people, they haven't actually shared these stories very much.

Jenna: For some people, it's one of the first time publicly revealing their story.

Jenna: So I don't even think they know how it's going to come out until it does.

Jenna: So I think it's kind of letting them process it and then trying to be there to support them as well because it is such a difficult conversation.

Jenna: But, yeah, it's just really important.

Marshall: I think what was so important about Mayor Brenda Halloran's episode for me was there's this moment of awareness where you go, wow, this person who is so revered, who's in this leadership position, leading the city that we live in, found themselves in a situation that they had to get out of.

Marshall: And you think, I guess no one has accept that, right?

Jenna: Exactly.

Jenna: And I think that's kind of the shocking piece for people sometimes is people in these kind of prominent positions or roles that's not the kind of classic person experiencing domestic violence.

Jenna: We all kind of I should say.

Jenna: I think a lot of us have this kind of image in our head of who experiences domestic violence.

Jenna: And I don't think it's common to think of the Mayor of Waterloo or even Anna Maria Tremonti, who is a guest on our current series, our Survivor series that just launched.

Jenna: She's such a powerful journalist.

Jenna: She's just a powerhouse.

Jenna: And when she kind of revealed her story, she kept a secret for 40 years when she came out and shared it.

Jenna: I think people were just shocked because they couldn't imagine someone who is so strong and fearless being in this type of situation.

Jenna: But that's the reality.

Jenna: It does happen and people cover it up and hide it for so long.

Sara: And this is what sometimes being a survivor looks like.

Sara: You are spending those 40 years surviving and perhaps you're so in it that you can't see clearly what it is you're in.

Jenna: Exactly.

Jenna: I think a lot of people have trouble even recognizing themselves that they've experienced domestic violence.

Jenna: A lot of people I've talked to have said I didn't even realize it until I came to the shelter or until years and years later.

Jenna: And they didn't even see it even though they were experiencing it.

Jenna: Because a lot of the time we do think of domestic violence as physical and maybe they were experiencing psychological abuse, financial abuse, course of control.

Jenna: Maybe it wasn't that kind of standard, what we see as domestic violence.

Jenna: So it's hard for them to even wrap their heads around what they experienced.

Jenna: But yeah, hearing from Brenda, I think was really powerful because of that, because people could see a few things.

Jenna: One, you can go from a situation like this and you can still make something of your life.

Jenna: You're not going to be kind of down and out forever.

Jenna: But also that it is these powerful, strong people who do survive this.

Jenna: Right.

Jenna: And that's something we were trying to show with the podcast.

Jenna: We were trying to really put a face and a name to domestic violence.

Jenna: A lot of time in kind of media imagery and stuff.

Jenna: You see that same picture, like a woman crying in the shadows or kind of bruised and battered.

Jenna: And that's just not how we at our organization see those who experience domestic violence.

Jenna: We see them as strong women who have been through so much.

Jenna: And that's why for us, a big part of the podcast, too, is the photography and having these color images, putting people's names to it and not showing these black and white in the shadows images.

Jenna: Because I think that kind of needs to change a bit.

Marshall: And I imagine you're creating a very carefully crafted environment.

Marshall: I know that it's compromised, but like you said, if it's done over Zoom.

Marshall: But I'm talking about more of the safety and how you express yourself to them and set the whole interview up.

Marshall: I imagine this is a conversation that happens before the recording begins.

Marshall: It lets everybody know you're in a safe place here, much like you do with the Women's Crisis center, right?

Jenna: Yeah, exactly.

Jenna: And I think it's really important.

Jenna: We have talked with some guests, potential guests who don't end up coming on the podcast because we kind of talk it through with them.

Jenna: Maybe it's not safe for them to do so.

Jenna: Safety is always kind of our biggest concern so we think about how long ago the relationship ended.

Jenna: Is this person still alive?

Jenna: Where do they live if they are alive?

Jenna: And we kind of talk through some of those pieces, too, so that they feel emotionally safe, but also physically safe because these are dangerous situations we're talking about.

Marshall: They're also probably vulnerable to people who want supported them.

Marshall: Or sometimes you hear people say, oh, why did you have to bring that up again?

Marshall: Stir all that up again?

Marshall: It's better left alone, right.

Marshall: You can tell some people kind of resigned to the idea of supporting someone and say, well, she's just going to go back to I tried to help, but she's just going to go back to many ways.

Marshall: Right.

Marshall: Must be very complicated.

Marshall: There's a lot to sort out before they even speak to you, right?

Jenna: Yeah, exactly.

Jenna: I think there's kind of a lot of unpacking there and thinking if this is the right place for them to tell their story and the right time, too.

Marshall: Let's take a moment to hear a segment from the she Is Your Neighbor podcast.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: You might feel that you can't speak out, you can't ask for help from your friends or your family.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: And then the other way it's been silenced is in this idea that it is just kind of an isolated incident that happens to people at home.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: And it isn't a societal issue, a broad issue that is, in fact, tied to so many other issues of exploitation and dominance, which it is.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: So I think we fail to recognize that it is, in fact, the issue of intimate partner violence or domestic violence is not isolated incidents that crop up here and there, but is, in fact, all tied together with a reckoning that we have not yet done around issues of misogyny in our society, which are deeply rooted.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: And I remember when you donated ice cream to our shelters, it was around Thanksgiving, and it was so nice.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: I know it was a really nice treat for everyone.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: Like you said, not just your normal breakfast or lunch.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: It was actually a treat.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: And you also had sent along a video at the time, too, saying Happy Thanksgiving to pass along to the residents.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: And you shared a bit of a message for them.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: And I'm wondering if there's any sort of message you'd like to share right now to anybody who's listening who might be going through a situation like this.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: I would say right now, your past and my past is part of our story.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: It's never going to go away.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: It's never going to be completely erased.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: But it doesn't define your future.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: And it doesn't get to dictate your worth or your confidence or your contribution, the ability to start to dream again.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: I remember it was hard.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: You have to set up all these.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: Systems and structures and there's just surviving.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: It's just doing the next thing to survive and whatever that looks like but there will be a time when you move from surviving and you start to create new strategies and you start to think about thriving.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: And that's a place that's possible.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: And in your darkest moments, when you're bawling in a corner somewhere hiding away from your kids so they don't see it, you know, those moments are real and they're going to happen, but they're not going to be forever.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: And so don't feel like you can't dream again.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: Don't feel like this is never going to end, because it is.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: And I'm proof of that.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: As much as we talk about Indigenous women being missing and murdered, I think that's really kind of the palatable way of saying it.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: Instead of really looking at the issue of we are being hunted and stolen and killed.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: People Hunt us.

She Is Your Neighbour Podcast: People prey on us, knowing that we're less likely to be believed, knowing that we're less likely to report.

Sara: So, Jenna, as we learned from Jen last week, it can take on an average 14 times for somebody to leave an abusive partner.

Sara: And of course, this is just a generalization, but this could be even after they made a plan, maybe not a formal plan with women's crisis services, but with friends or family or reached out to someone said, this is it.

Sara: I'm going for sure this time.

Sara: That could take so many times.

Sara: I wonder, is it harder for people to how do I want to wear this?

Sara: Sorry.

Sara: As you were explaining to us, Jenna, most people have this media stereotypical image of somebody who is experiencing abuse, but something like financial abuse, which is listed on the website in this wonderful section, this is what different types of abuse can look like.

Sara: It might even be a surprise.

Sara: People might not even know that they're experiencing that.

Sara: It's not that well known of a concept.

Sara: I don't think that people are taught like people can't take that from you, they can't control that from you.

Sara: And as a form of controlling your entire world, limit your access to funds.

Jenna: Yeah.

Jenna: So I think financial abuse is a really common one, but also a really tricky one.

Jenna: Like you said, it's not something that someone might recognize right away.

Jenna: And I think you also have to remember, whenever it comes to domestic violence, these things often happen slowly and gradually over time.

Jenna: Right.

Jenna: It's not a switch that flips overnight.

Jenna: People wouldn't choose to get into violent relationships.

Jenna: So I think it can take someone by surprise.

Jenna: It can kind of sneak up slowly and then you don't even realize the situation that you're in.

Jenna: When it comes to financial abuse, this could include things like not having access to your bank account or savings, not having a credit card in your name.

Jenna: Perhaps it's a woman who stays at home, takes care of the kids so she doesn't have any income of her own.

Jenna: She doesn't have anything in her name.

Jenna: It might not feel like abuse at the time, because maybe this is just your situation and how you've worked it out.

Jenna: But I think when it's part of a larger situation of domestic violence and coercive control, we can see how that starts playing in and how that can be really difficult when someone is trying to leave a relationship.

Jenna: If you don't have any funds tied to your name, it can be difficult to get your own apartment to leave.

Jenna: It can be difficult to figure out what to do with your children, how to take care of them.

Jenna: So I think there's lots of different parts of that that can make leaving really difficult.

Jenna: And people ask, why didn't she just leave?

Jenna: Because it's not that simple.

Jenna: If it was that simple, people would do it.

Jenna: And it's not always the right time for people to leave either.

Jenna: Right.

Jenna: Maybe that's not what they need.

Jenna: I think people have different situations, and maybe for someone it might be learning to live more safely in their current situation for a while.

Jenna: Maybe leaving is not an option at this time or what they want, but it's something down the road.

Jenna: Yeah.

Jenna: But there are just many different forms of abuse, and I think they can be difficult for the person going through it.

Marshall: Can we talk about some of the collaborative efforts and partnerships that you have in the community that I guess are beneficial to everybody, right?

Jenna: Yeah.

Jenna: We have lots of great partners in the community.

Jenna: We're lucky to live in a region that has so many great community organizations and partners.

Jenna: We have both community partners and then corporate partners, too, who are a big support for us.

Jenna: Maybe.

Jenna: First I'll kind of mention about some of our partners through She as Your Neighbor.

Jenna: We've had lots of sponsors support the podcast, and we've even had collaborations with local businesses like Pretty by Her, which is a small shop in Cambridge.

Jenna: And she helped create some merchandise and stuff.

Jenna: So that was pretty cool that we were able to partner with her in that way on that.

Jenna: And even businesses like Marble Slab, we did a collaboration with them last year with The Marble Slab in Waterloo, and they had a She is Your Neighbour Burr ice cream, like Burr Cold.

Jenna: And they were kind of educating people about the podcast and domestic violence while getting ice cream.

Jenna: So kind of an unlikely partnership, but something that was created and we thought it was pretty neat that we're able to do that.

Jenna: And then in terms of community partners, we really have so many of those close partners who are lucky to work with.

Jenna: Recently we've been really connected with Canadian Arab Women's Association, which is a fantastic partnership.

Jenna: I think especially women who are in different communities need support from their own communities.

Jenna: And this is something you'll hear in some of our recent podcast episodes, too, is the importance of having cultural and community support.

Jenna: So sometimes we women's crisis might not be the organization to provide the support, but who can we partner with and what resources can we give them and connect them with so that they can get the support from those who they're most comfortable with and who they need?

Jenna: We're really close partner with Family and Children's Services.

Jenna: So they have a worker on our site.

Jenna: We have one at their site.

Jenna: Yeah.

Jenna: Just lots of really fantastic partners in the community.

Jenna: We're part of the Child and Youth Advocacy Center.

Jenna: So we have a partnership there.

Jenna: We're partnered with Child Witness Center.

Speaker UNK: Yeah.

Jenna: So lots of really good partners.

Jenna: So our new season, we're super excited about it.

Jenna: It just launched, and we've actually kind of changed the way we're doing the seasons a bit.

Jenna: We kind of started with season one and season two, which had all sorts of different themes about domestic violence.

Jenna: But this season we're taking a different approach and really streamlining it.

Jenna: So it's a Survivor series.

Jenna: Everyone in the series is directly a survivor of domestic violence and sharing their story.

Jenna: In the past, we've had experts and things like that.

Jenna: But this is truly a Survivor Series, and we have some amazing guests.

Jenna: Again, we have Anna Maria Tremonti, who I was so excited to talk to and learn from.

Jenna: I've really admired her work for a long time, so it was just incredible to talk to her.

Jenna: We have Cheryl Haskett, who's an entrepreneur.

Jenna: She's the owner of Utterly Ridiculous, which is a goat's milk ice cream company.

Jenna: And she has an experience with domestic violence that she shares.

Jenna: We have Carlos Morgan on it, who's an R&B singer.

Jenna: Again, really great to hear from him.

Jenna: Samar Zafar.

Jenna: She's a best selling author.

Jenna: She wrote the book called A Good Wife Escaping the Life I Never Chose, and talks about being a child bride, how she came to Canada, experienced domestic violence.

Jenna: Yeah.

Jenna: So there's just some really amazing guests.

Jenna: And that's kind of the theme threaded throughout is that everyone is directly a survivor of domestic violence and shares their experience.

Marshall: I think one of the most beautiful parts about this series you're talking about is this may be the only time in these people's lives where they're allowed to tell their story at their pace.

Marshall: So maybe they've tried to do this in the past in different situations.

Marshall: It could be someone's house in a restaurant somewhere, and there would be things that would interrupt that story.

Marshall: Either someone saying, oh, that's not what happened, or, well, you should see what it was like for me.

Marshall: All these things that can interrupt a story trying to be told and shared, which is then disruptive to the person trying to share the story and hurtful in some ways, too.

Marshall: Right.

Marshall: As if you're devaluing what's being said.

Marshall: So that's a really amazing thing because what you're capturing is possibly the one and only time someone's been allowed and given the space and the respect to tell that story from beginning to end, do you think about that?

Jenna: I've never thought about it that way.

Jenna: You kind of gave me chills a little bit talking about it like that, because I think you're right.

Jenna: I think when I do think about it now, I think people don't always get the chance to share these stories like you said, and there are so many interruptions or things that well intended friends and family making comments are trying to help and not just kind of letting someone tell their story.

Jenna: And I think there is something to that.

Jenna: That being said, we do dive in and ask some questions about different parts, but we kind of start by just letting them share their story and clear the air.

Jenna: So I think you're onto something there.

Marshall: Well, I know the experience of trying to share something and you realize you've made somebody uncomfortable and now it changes everything in the way you're trying to communicate.

Marshall: And like you said, it's not meant to be not well intended.

Marshall: It's just the nature of the way people speak.

Marshall: But your podcast sets it up kind of like a stage, right?

Marshall: Like here you are, you're in a safe place and the questions you are going to answer are going to be respectful and help move that message along, right?

Jenna: Yeah, I think you're right.

Jenna: And I think it maybe is something to talking to someone who you don't know that well, a lot of our guests I did know beforehand, but not all.

Jenna: Some of them I was meeting for the first time when we were doing this, but I think it's different when you're telling a personal story to your friends and family.

Jenna: I have had guests say to me they wanted to tell me their story in depth and they hadn't actually shared these details to their friends and family and they would rather them hear it through the podcast because that was easier for them.

Jenna: And in those situations, my first reaction was worry.

Jenna: And are you sure you're ready to tell this story?

Jenna: Because I do not want to exploit anyone or have anyone share anything that they're not ready to share.

Jenna: But I think for some people that's really the space they needed.

Jenna: That was the space and the time where they wanted to share their story and it felt right.

Jenna: And they didn't have to worry about what their friends and family on the other end was thinking because they're telling it to me and I'm just there to listen and I think they know that.

Jenna: So it is kind of cool.

Sara: I think there must be an element of freedom as well.

Sara: I've spoken about this before with grief.

Sara: Sometimes when you're explaining your grief or like if for some reason I have to say, oh, my parents are gone, my parents are past or my parents are dead or whatever, it is.

Sara: You’re often comforting the receiver of your news.

Sara: I'm okay.

Sara: I'm fine.

Sara: And you're worried about their reaction.

Sara: Now it's become your burden to make sure that they're comfortable in the story that you're telling.

Sara: And that usually happens with people that you know pretty well.

Sara: Right.

Sara: So maybe perhaps in a conversation with you, that sort of that barrier can be lifted and you can just get through and tell your own story in that space.

Jenna: Yeah, I think you're so right.

Jenna: And thinking about it in the same way as you think about grief, I think you're right.

Jenna: And I think of when I myself have tried to talk to someone about something like that, and you do that.

Jenna: Don't worry.

Jenna: I'm good.

Jenna: And it's pretty good.

Jenna: I always try and find an upside when you're talking about something depressing because that's I think just human nature sometimes to do that.

Jenna: But yeah, I think in the podcast it's cool because they don't have to do that.

Jenna: They don't need to make me feel better.

Jenna: I hear these stories all the time, which doesn't make it any easier, but I am a little more used to it than their friends or family might be.

Jenna: Yeah.

Jenna: So I think it is nice for them to have that space.

Sara: And speaking about grief as well.

Jenna: There.

Sara: Has to be space for grieving, like a marriage or a partnership that you thought was going to work or person that you loved even though they hurt you.

Sara: There has to be space for that to say, it's okay that I believed in this or it's okay that I still love this person I can no longer be with.

Sara: It's just not going to be the love that we thought it was.

Sara: Right.

Jenna: Exactly.

Jenna: I think there really is a grieving process when it comes to domestic violence.

Jenna: And for some people, it may take a really long time to work through that.

Jenna: For some people, they don't share these stories for years and years, I think because they're processing it themselves first and then the thought of sharing it, they haven't even figured it out for a long time.

Jenna: They're still grieving what they thought was and what isn't.

Jenna: I think that's true.

Marshall: Your website States we all have a role to end domestic violence.

Marshall: And your podcast is part of that, right.

Marshall: By educating people and have everybody share other people share their stories and other people listen.

Marshall: Hopefully there's people out there who either see that in themselves and realize action needs to be taken or they know somebody.

Marshall: Right.

Marshall: When you speak of prevention strategies, is that what you're talking about, too?

Marshall: Like getting this information, these stories out there?

Jenna: I think you're right.

Jenna: I think the podcast, we see it as a tool for education and also for prevention.

Jenna: It's not really your standard prevention tool when it comes to domestic violence.

Jenna: You often think of opportunities or people speaking to large groups or students or things like that and I think this is maybe a bit of a kind of modern take on it in a new world.

Jenna: We have podcasts and it's kind of a cool tool that we can use to educate people kind of near and far about domestic violence.

Jenna: So, yeah, I do think it's kind of a preventative approach we're able to use and to get people thinking about that, that we all have a role to play.

Jenna: Like, I often think about how I think this is my role to play, right?

Jenna: I think we all have different roles in it and I really do think everybody has some role, but not everybody needs to be a social worker working at women's crisis services in the shelter, right?

Jenna: We can all take our own role.

Jenna: Maybe your role is being a supportive neighbor or friend.

Jenna: My role is that I get to work on this podcast, which is my love of my life.

Jenna: I'm so lucky I get to do it, but I think we can all use our unique skills and backgrounds differently and find our role in it.

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